Agenda and draft minutes

Members and officers must declare any disclosable pecuniary interests in relation to

any business on the agenda. Declarations should also be made at any stage such

an interest becomes apparent during the meeting.

If in doubt contact the Legal or Democratic Services representative for this meeting.

There were no declarations of interest.

The Chair put forward a motion to defer item 6 to allow for further public engagement regarding the proposed fees. This motion was seconded.  Following requests from Members, the Chair used her discretion and agreed to hear public questions before the Committee debated this motion.

To approve the minutes of the Licensing Committee meeting held on 25 March 2024 and the Sub Committees meetings held on 18 March, 25 March, 27 March, 8 May, 30 July, 31 July, 6 Aug, 7 Aug and 27 August 2024 which have been emailed to Members.

Resolved: that the minutes of the Licensing Committee meeting held on 25 March 2024 and the Sub Committees meetings held on 18 March, 25 March, 27 March, 8 May, 30 July, 31 July, 6 Aug, 7 Aug and 27 August 2024 be approved as the correct record.

So as to provide the best opportunity for the Committee to provide the public with the fullest answer, questions from the public should be submitted by midday on Wednesday 18 September 2024.

Where relevant notice of a question has not been given, the person presiding may either choose to give a response at the meeting or respond by undertaking to provide a written response within three working days.

Questions should be submitted to Democratic Services - democratic.services@adur-worthing.gov.uk

(Note: Public Question Time will last for a maximum of 30 minutes)

There was one presubmitted question from the Worthing Business Improvement District (BID) -

I would like to ask if the meeting could be adjourned or any decisions could be put on hold until we have had a proper consultation, as the BID has not been consulted in the process. I would also like to ask how the fee has been worked out and whether we could look at other options to minimise costs, ie the BID handling the admin of this.

The Licensing Officer replied -

It is the Committees decision whether they defer or consider the item this evening. This is national legislation that is coming into force and there is no formal consultation process with national legislation. It has been adopted by authorities all over the country and we have no choice in the matter.

We have looked at every way we can minimise the fees and, in response to a request from a Councillor, we’ve produced an addendum to the agenda showing a breakdown of the costs of licences. It is currently very much a guesstimate as we have had to rely on the figures of the costs of other licences.

The previous system we adopted to supply pavement licences was light touch and there were no fees involved as this Committee had waived those fees to help businesses during Covid. We are not looking to recoup this lost revenue. We have compared the figures we have estimated, and they are similar to a lot of local authorities in this area, and taking into account inflation, they are almost equivalent to the fees charged by WSCC in 2018 when they ran the scheme. We have also made the pledge that we will look at these costs again after two years to make sure we are only covering costs and not making a profit.

There were two public questions that had not been submitted from two local licensees regarding the proposed cost of the pavement licences.

The Licensing Officer responded clarifying that although the cost of processing a licence was much the same for any size business, they had included a lower payment for those smaller businesses that would only have 2 tables and 8 chairs outside. He also explained that, although the Committee could decide to waive the cost of these licences for licensees, the service would still need to be paid for and so other services may have to charge more. The Officer made the point that if licensees did not hold a pavement licence, and there was an accident on the pavement involving their tables and chairs, it was very possible that their public liability insurance would not pay any claims due to the fact they were unlicensed.

Pre-submitted Members questions are pursuant to rule 12 of the Council & Committee Procedure Rules.

Questions should be submitted by midday on Wednesday 18 September 2024 to Democratic Services, democratic.services@adur-worthing.gov.uk

(Note: Member Question Time will operate for a maximum of 30 minutes.)

There were no questions from Members.

To consider any items the Chairman of the meeting considers to be urgent

There were no urgent items.

To consider a report by the Director for Sustainability & Resources, attached as item 6.

The Committee commenced the debate of the Chairs motion to defer item 6.

During debate members expressed their disappointment that public engagement had not formally taken place before this report had been brought before the Committee.

The Officers confirmed that they estimated, allowing for an engagement process with the public, that the report could be brought back before the Committee in January or February 2025. They also clarified that current pavement licences that had been issued (approx. 26) were due to expire on 30th September. A four-month licence would be issued to those licensees, free of charge, to cover the interim period until the new fees were approved.

Members voiced their concern that revenue would now be lost to the council because of this delay.

Officers clarified that no other local authorities in this area had consulted with the public and confirmed that notice of this legislation had been nationally available to all licensees through trade magazines and literature.

During debate Cllr Jenkins proposed an amendment to the motion to include - 

1. Benchmarking against all District and Boroughs in West Sussex 2

2. Provision of alternative model of fee determination based on Non-Domestic Rateable Value  

3. Review projected officer hours 

4. Provision of option of applicants requesting a 2-year licence and costings

5. Breakdown of existing 26 +/- licences with cross reference to 2 above to consider impact on licence holders and WBC

This was seconded and voted in favour of unanimously.

This item was deferred.